In 1770, long before the "Tea Party" made its appearance, Alexander Fraser Tyler wrote his 'Cycle of Democracy:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over lousy fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage." (Boldface mine)
Could this nation with its many entitlements be following such a course. The increasing national debt and addition of more entitlements is just like a Madoff/Ponzi scheme. Both Republican and Democrats, Industries top level executives and labor leaders must start working together to control our finances.
One local step will be the BOE meeting tonight devoted to its budget. My mild malaise permitting I shall try to be there.
Could this nation with its many entitlements be following such a course. The increasing national debt and addition of more entitlements is just like a Madoff/Ponzi scheme. Both Republican and Democrats, Industries top level executives and labor leaders must start working together to control our finances.
One local step will be the BOE meeting tonight devoted to its budget. My mild malaise permitting I shall try to be there.
OK, I'll bite. There was something that seemed very un-Eighteenth Century about that quote, particularly the use of the word 'lousy' (sic). So un-1770! So boom boom pow I googled the first sentence and came up with this mystery--> http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html
ReplyDeleteadd in the politicians and extreme liberal insane desire for an increasingly intrusive nanny state to solve all your problems and hell in a hand basket is the fast approaching
ReplyDeleteDoc, you need to do your research!
ReplyDeleteIt is actually the combination of 2 quotes . . . both by unknown authors and unverified!
http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Tytler
if you go i would suggest you wait until 8 as this is also advertised as a special meeting.
ReplyDeleteAlan, Rob, and TAP,Your comments as always are gladly received even if TAP was critical that I did not research the quote. I did try to google the supposed author without any luck. One can spend just so much time on non critical issues. Therefore my gratitude is to Alan for his llnk to Collins '
ReplyDeleteThe site I obtained this quote is "Quote Search at (http://www.quotationspage.com/search.)
1. How many Democracies existed at the time of his writing?
ReplyDelete2. Is there a better form of government?
3. I don't understand why you don't spend more time critizing the Goldman Sachs of the world as they have done far more damage to the democracy that is America.
From Wikipedia, Part-1:
'In his Lectures, Tytler displayed a cynical view of democracy in general and representative democracies such as republics in particular. He believed that "a pure democracy is a chimera," and that "All government is essentially of the nature of a monarchy." In discussing the Athenian democracy, after noting that a great number of the population were actually enslaved, he went on to say, "Nor were the superior classes in the actual enjoyment of a rational liberty and independence. They were perpetually divided into factions, which servilely ranked themselves under the banners of the contending demagogues; and these maintained their influence over their partisans by the most shameful corruption and bribery, of which the means were supplied alone by the plunder of the public money."[4]
Speaking about the measure of freedom enjoyed by the people in a republic or democracy, Tytler wrote, "The people flatter themselves that they have the sovereign power. These are, in fact, words without meaning. It is true they elected governors; but how are these elections brought about? In every instance of election by the mass of a people--through the influence of those governors themselves, and by means the most opposite to a free and disinterested choice, by the basest corruption and bribery. But those governors once selected, where is the boasted freedom of the people? They must submit to their rule and control, with the same abandonment of their natural liberty, the freedom of their will, and the command of their actions, as if they were under the rule of a monarch."[5] cont.
Part-2:
ReplyDeleteTytler dismisses the more optimistic vision of democracy by commentators such as Montesquieu as "nothing better than an Utopian theory, a splendid chimera, descriptive of a state of society that never did, and never could exist; a republic not of men, but of angels," for "While man is being instigated by the love of power--a passion visible in an infant, and common to us even with the inferior animals--he will seek personal superiority in preference to every matter of a general concern; or at best, he will employ himself in advancing the public good, as the means of individual distinction and elevation: he will promote the interest of the state from the selfish but most useful passion of making himself considerable in that establishment which he labors to aggrandize. Such is the true picture of man as a political agent."[6]
That said however, Tytler does admit that there are individual exceptions to the rule, and that he is ready to allow "that this form of government is the best adapted to produce, though not the most frequent, yet the most striking, examples of virtue in individuals," paradoxically because a "democratic government opposes more impediments to disinterested patriotism than any other form. To surmount these, a pitch of virtue is necessary which, in other situations, where the obstacles or less great and numerous, is not called in to exertion. The nature of a republican government gives to every member of the state an equal right to cherish views of ambition, and to aspire to the highest offices of the commonwealth; it gives to every individual of the same title with his fellows to aspire at the government of the whole."[7]
Tytler believed that democratic forms of government such as those of Greece and Rome have a natural evolution from initial virtue toward eventual corruption and decline. In Greece, for example, Tytler argues that "the patriotic spirit and love of ingenious freedom ... became gradually corrupted as the nation advanced in power and splendor." Tytler goes on to generalize: "Patriotism always exists in the greatest degree in rude nations, and in an early period of society. Like all other affections and passions, it operates with the greatest force where it meets with the greatest difficulties ... but in a state of ease and safety, as if wanting its appropriate nourishment, it languishes and decays." ... "It is a law of nature to which no experience has ever furnished an exception, that the rising grander and opulence of a nation must be balanced by the decline of its heroic virtues."[8]
First of all Nat, the USA is a Republic! Always has been and hopefully always will be!
ReplyDeleteSecond of all the Library of Congress says that the "Cycle of Democracy" quote is actually two quotes and from different authors who remain are unverified. This quote first surfaced in 1943 not 1770!
Your long winded, palaverous and rambling dissertation has left me near exhausted! No one can ever accuse you of being direct and to the point!
Nat & TAP, I think we all agree that Tyler did n ot exist i the late 18th century, and that the "quote" may have been taken out of context but it has been used in various forms for over almost 7 decades. It is probably much older than that. The point is that it makes sense and was meant to be thought provoking which it has turned out to be in an unexpected manner. WE all learned something NO more arguments. Nat you have your blog and TAP since you are the only one who hides identity you will have to define the criteria for your anon name. I may or may not post any response.
ReplyDeleteIn the end, we all are subject to cycles. Birth - Growth - Maturity - Decline - Death - Rebirth - Growth - etc. All cycles go through this - economic cycles, national cycles, product cycles, nature cycles.
ReplyDeleteHumans by our nature are selfish, motived by our own interests. We have to be trained to think of others and we have to be in a place where we have enough to be wiling to share resources.
People often are our best selves when we struggle. The struggle makes us grow, makes us strong. It's exciting to struggle, succeed, fail, succeed. Every step you have to fight for, and you achieve, is a wonderful thing. You know that you can make things happen in your life, no one can take that away.
When everything is handed to you or when things are so easy --
that's when people complain, become more greedy -- you can see the worst behavior from people in this boat. These individuals (whether wealthy or getting government handouts) - they KNOW they didn't earn what they have, they aren't self-sufficient, and I think that can have a horrible impact on the human soul.
I think the prose Nat quoted was making those points in the language of the time - to us flowerly and obtuse, but really very beautiful and elegant and well-thought out. Put that stuff on your blog Nat! I'd come by to read it. :-)
Olive Lynch
I know too much about too many people to reveal my identity at this time. I honestly feel as though my life is in danger!
ReplyDeleteThis is possibly the most crooked county in New Jersey!!!!